5 thoughts on “Episode 4 Bill Johnson review

  1. Hi Steve and Rick,
    Thanks for putting all of this out as it is so helpful to me as I have just broken free from Bethel Church. Having listen to Bills teaching for years, and having just gone through Bethel Redding for last few months and before just getting out, I can tell you Bills messages are very enchanting and captivating, and seam very anointed at face value. He says things that sound like he is revealing the mysteries of the scriptures that are not understood by the common man. And a lot of what he says “sounds” and “feels” in line with scripture and enlightening at face value. Note that I used the words “sounds” and “feels”. While I was drawn into his teaching I found myself many times to be drawn deep into as state that was like a trance, like I was being enchanted by Bills words, this was before God awakened me in His Word. This is one of the big things of this movement that really actually scares more then anything is that this teaching feels and sounds scriptural, and is so captivating and is so enchanting that it is leading so many people astray. Many of these people are young and have a real passion for following the Lord which is frightening and sad. I am watching this happen right before my eyes here as it is rapidly moving into a lot of the Churches all around here in California. My close friends and now even my family is being drawn into this movement. I just pray the Lord opens their eyes. Once again, thank you for doing this and please continue. Craig

  2. Hi guys,
    I am a South African (currently living in Burundi!) but I am married to an American and lived in the USA for 13 years. I was part of a small church made up of very sweet well intentioned people – but who had fallen hook line and sinker for every single NAR teaching! I was immersed in IHOP, TACF, Joyner, Bethel and more for 10 years. The result – was …. can you guess…. no revivals, no variable miracles (lots of good feelings ), 3 hour worship sessions, a very long tiring Sunday, broken marriage and festering sin.

    You guys covered A LOT in this discussion and it was all spot on.

    2 things to add:
    1. sin – in the NAR – you are not a sinner. And dare you say you are because as you confess you are a sinner -your confession will MAKE you sin more!! You must confess instead that you are a saint. The result – so much unconfessed sin! and people silently sinning all the time, broken marriage, secret alcoholism and porn addiction etc.
    2. works – since we are working so hard to “believe for healings” and dead raising and “lean in” and “push in” to the “spirit” for MORE, for revival, breakthrough, upgrade, acceleration and so on – it’s basically a works based mentality….work work work and eventually God responds to this. There is so much PRESSURE to perform in these circles that people just make stuff up – ALL THE TIME. People are exhausted, burnt out, striving. Their is envy and competitiveness and “anointing ranking” – you get ranked as higher if you shake and wiggle and ooh and aah and give “prophetic words” regularly.
    3. Sensuality – since there is a lob-sided (really weird) emphasis on intimacy (heralded by Mike Bickel’s “bridal paradigm” theology) – worship sessions have become “love sessions” – “loving on” our Jesus – like He is some sort of Holy boyfriend. The worship leaders sway back and forth – drawing such attention to their clothing and bodies. The chanting of 1 line over and over again becomes so strange and then before you know it – everyone is writhing on the floor or convulsing under the so-called influence of a Holy God. There is nothing reverent about it, it’s downright weird and instead of worshipping a Holy God, it’s like making God into a human super model who needs to be slathered with kisses. Yuck.

    Thanks so much for this podcast. Been listening to Fighting for the Faith for a while now and am so thankful to be out of the NAR!!! Trying to reason with my friends is tiring – the doctrines are so blinding. Never prayed for people so much in my life! Thankfully my husband and I are fully on the same page!

    May God bless and strengthen you guys to continue this work.

    • Hi Caelene, thank you so much for your comment!!! As it is, I’m working on my next article – the effects of false teachings. I have a few points already, false teachings lead to sensuality, slavery, stumbling, sin, shipwrecking of faith, I might change a few things but that’s the just of it, and exactly what you have pointed out! Would love to hear how you came out of this, we are always willing to dedicate an article sharing the testimony of someone who came out of the NAR. If you are interested, send us an email – [email protected]
      Thanks again for the comment!

  3. I had to take a break from listening around 28 minutes, when Bill Johnson says, “The Kingdom of God is the present reality that can’t be constrained by our definitions.”

    Here is a saying from Satanism: “Nothing is true; everything is permissable.”

    See the similarity? No? Then you might be in serious trouble.

    Truth is an absolute, so absolute that Jesus declares himself to be the truth. He is the Word of God, and the written word of God is the standard for all believers to see what is true, as demonstrated by the Bereans.

    It’s common for people who identify themselves as “spiritual” to talk about “my truth.” You’re in for some difficulty when you try to explain to them the vast difference between what they can see of the truth from their perspective, and the actual truth. Insurance companies take witness statements after an accident to try to piece together what happened, but everyone breathes a sigh of relief (except for the guilty party) when a camera was found to have captured the accident. People see the same action differently depending on their physical location, plus they have individual weaknesses like recall issues due to a host of causes. Personal perspective does not establish the truth. God is the truth, and he alone judges justly. Pilate asked Jesus about the truth sardonically or sarcastically, not out of a desire to know Truth Incarnate standing before him.

    We should care very much about the truth as Christians, since Jesus equates himself with it. When anyone, especially a pastor or teacher identifying his/herself as a Christian, starts making negative statements about “definitions” as limiting or constraining the kingdom or what God is doing or wants to do, we should know immediately they are in error. People who point to the word of God as the standard are wrongly labeled “negative” people. People who object to accepting every supernatural happening as from God without testing are falsely accused of “quenching the spirit.”

    Johnson is doing two things by falsely declaring, “The kingdom of God is the present reality that is not constrained by our definitions”:

    1) He is setting up a lie in the place of truth when it comes to discerning the Kingdom of God. He declares that the present reality — whatever you experience as “real,” supernatural or not, to be the kingdom of God. Yet the Bible says there are two kingdoms, one of darkness and one of light, and the difference between them is discerned through what is in the word of God. We are never told to accept all that we experience (the present reality) as the kingdom of God. Feelings and sensory input are not indicators of “truth to live by” — God’s words are. Moses even tells us that God allowed the Hebrews to hunger and then only be fed by manna that appeared only by God’s command so that they (and we) might learn that man cannot live except by every word from His mouth. Satan’s approach to us when it comes to God’s word is often the same as it was to Eve. He uses deceitful reasoning. Satan led her to rely on her feelings and sensory input about the fruit on the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, rather than to rely on what God said about it. Paul expressed concern for the Corinthians, that they were slipping into the same deceit as Eve — we are therefore to see by that it is a concern for all Christians, not just for women or a particular people group. When God confronts Adam, he charges him with guilt for choosing to listen to his deceived wife OVER what He had commanded him not to do. We face the same choice. Will we listen to God’s words, or will we listen to deceived people when it comes to establishing “reality” and the truth?

    2) He is setting up a lie in the place of truth by declaring there are no standards for discernment. “Reality can’t be constrained by our definitions.” This gobbledegook translates as, “Nothing is knowable, and if we say we know something, that is presumption when it comes to God’s kingdom.” Johnson attempts to do away with humanity’s ability to discern anything about the truth by using the phrase “our definitions.” The listener is supposed to understand by his use of this phrase that there are definitions that are not “ours,” or are superior to ours, and that we have no access to them, so we are not to judge anything we experience as reality as being outside of God’s kingdom. Johnson is neglecting to mention that God has shown us His definitions through his word. God has revealed the truth, proper definitions that go beyond “ours,” in his word. Ammon declared multiple times that he “loved” Tamar, yet he conspired to get her alone and he raped her. John tells us, “This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.” When we want to know the definition of love, we look at Jesus rather than at Amnon. In Isaiah 55 God confirms that his thoughts and ways are not like ours, and are higher than ours. Yet God goes on to say that just like rain and snow come from heaven, so does his word. It is by his word that we have definitions that are higher than ours, and they are discernible because we have the word of God given to us.

    Reality is rightly divided by God’s word, and his word demonstrates that the reality we are experiencing is either a reflection of the Kingdom of Darkness, or of the Kingdom of Light. We are told to walk in the light. We have a discernible choice. This is what Johnson should have declared, and then spent the rest of his time in expository teaching of the word of God so his listeners could grow and choose rightly. Shame on him.

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